Magic Monday
Aug. 7th, 2022 11:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)

The image? I've decided to do another pass through magical personalities, and I figured I'd start with one of my own teachers. This is John Gilbert, with whom I studied the teachings of the Universal Gnostic Church, the Order of Spiritual Alchemy, the Modern Order of Essenes, and the Magickal Order of the Golden Dawn -- this last, of course, is the parent body of the Fellowship of the Hermetic Rose. This photo was taken in 2008 in eastern Tennessee at a Druid event there; it was the last time John and I met in person, though we corresponded via email and talked on the phone quite a bit after that.
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**This Magic Monday is now closed. See you next week!***
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-08 04:03 am (UTC)As promised last week, if celebrating a cross-quarter day is part of your festal year, and if you prefer the halfway mark between the solstice and equinox to the first of August, then a happy Lughnasadh to you! Otherwise, a very happy Sunday night/Monday.
Thanks very much, JMG, for hosting this space and your time and effort in answering the wide variety of questions. Thank you also for sharing the picture of John Gilbert, and even more so for sharing the teachings he has passed on to you - to judge by what you've shared, he was quite the figure.
To Share: A few weeks back, I asked about resources on prayer, and samchevre was kind enough to share the Catechism of the Council of Trent (1829), and specifically its Part IV On Prayer. I found this extremly helpful (though I'm still reading through the parts analyzing the "Our Father" in depth), and I've written up some of my takeaways on what prayer can be about and how it can be useful, whatever your spiritual path, here, should anyone find that helpful.
To Ask: Having meditated my way through the first branch of the Mabinogion, I am now working on the Druid Philosophy triads from the Dolmen Arch. For JMG and/or the commentariat, is it normal to feel like I'm slamming my forehead into a brick wall with these first few Triads, and any advice besides "keep at it"? My current approach is to spend 3 days per triad (one day focusing on each part), with lots of re-reading in between meditation sessions.
Thanks very much,
Jeff
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Date: 2022-08-08 04:14 am (UTC)2) It's necessary to shift mental gears in order to make sense of the triads in the DA course. Narrative requires one kind of thinking, philosophical discourse requires a different kind, and yes, the transition can be a bit rough! One thing that helps many people is to think of examples in your own daily life, so it becomes less abstract to you.
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From:Body fat and menarche
From:Another question about cats
Date: 2022-08-08 04:35 am (UTC)I have asked about the magical importance of cats in the past and as I am a Kemet whose patron is Bastet, cats are a fairly common topic. Now one of my last questions comes to this: why is it that cats are the black sheep of the media world? In any media, tv, movies, or otherwise, you would be hard pressed to see a cat or something to related to it not be abused.
Is it just commonly funny (for some people) to use them as the abuse/horror trope? Or is there a larger undercurrent of deeming them as “evil” or “dark” by the same kind of people who would burn them en masse in the 1400s during the witch hunts? It seems that the rate of these “jokes” have increased during this very dark period of time, which makes me so uneasy and nauseous I have to turn of the tv.
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Date: 2022-08-08 05:34 am (UTC)Re: Another question about cats
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Date: 2022-08-08 05:26 am (UTC)I have some things to share.
at a recent get together with some old friends I got an interesting peace of information. It seems that in the last years the university in Wyoming, that was having financial troubles in its technology and informatics departments simply shut down. Then in the same vain they reestablished a new university of technology and informatics. In that way they lost a lot of the old entrenched tenured staff, that consequently did not have tenure with the new university. This is just hearsay I heard of and needs to be proved. But it points to the trends you warned about.
Best regards, V
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Date: 2022-08-08 05:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
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From:Quieter and Quieter
Date: 2022-08-08 06:00 am (UTC)A blessed (if belated) Lammas to you and yours.
In the past month, I have managed to find a group of fellow practitioners, and we have started working together. It is going well so far, and I expect we should be able to part ways without too many hurt feelings if it starts to go poorly. Now that I have this group, I have no interest in advertising myself. Is this common?
Two more direct questions:
1) Do you know much about the artist Elihu Vedder?
2) If you have a deck of Tarot cards with several missing, what should you do with the remainder?
Re: Quieter and Quieter
Date: 2022-08-08 05:44 pm (UTC)1) Not much. I know he was influenced by the Symbolists and ran with William Butler Yeats, so it's a pretty fair bet that he was involved at least peripherally with occultism.
2) Whatever you like. There's no fixed rule, that I know of.
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From:Best time to accept a job
Date: 2022-08-08 06:54 am (UTC)Thanks for the MM
What is the best time for accepting a job formally (I assume nowadays in Zoom/online times is when you click on the button in the online internal system). You only get there after you've talked to HR on the phone and such
I was thinking planetary day & hour of Jupiter, try to do it during Aquisitio
if it's too far away, then anyday of the week during Aquisitio?
What do you think?
Thank you,
Persimmon Melancholic Salamander
Re: Best time to accept a job
Date: 2022-08-08 05:46 pm (UTC)Re: Best time to accept a job
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Date: 2022-08-08 07:35 am (UTC)What is even stranger is that while the donning of the presidential sash is the formal sign for assumption of the presidency, the ceremony was paused for an hour afterwards until another piece of inaugural regalia, Bolivar's sword, was dug out and brought forth to the technically now president. With this brought out is the sign for the president to begin his inagural address. By the time this began, the Sun had passed into the 7th house with Venus still in there, Mars-Uranus in the 4th, Saturn in the 2nd, Jupiter and Neptune in the 3rd, Mercury in the 8th, and the Moon in the 11th.
I am bit flabbergasted over how terrible an election the proper inaguration time is (local time 3:19pm, 20:19UT, Moon 16 Sag 25'15", Bogota Colombia). Saturn ruling the first, Uranus the second, Mars the 4th, an 8th house cusp Leo with the Sun in the middle of it. The second chart (4:21pm local time, 21:21UT, 17 Sag 2'19") is a little bit better for the Sun, but terrible none the less.
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-08 05:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2022-08-08 11:37 pm (UTC) - ExpandTwo astrology/planetary questions
Date: 2022-08-08 07:44 am (UTC)And thank you once again for the treasured chance to ask questions! :-)
Two questions today, if I may:
1. In your natural magic Encyclopedia, health is listed as belonging to Mercury. However, browsing through the talismans on Christopher Warnock‘s site, there are a few (less than a handful) of Mercury health talismans, but most of the ones associated with health belong to the Sun.
I also vaguely remember reading somewhere about a connection between Jupiter and health, but I‘m not sure about that anymore, so my mind could be making this up. ;-)
Could you explain which parts/aspects of health relate to the respective planets? (I don‘t mean the body parts etc, but when would Mercury in general be appropriate for a health issue, and when would the Sun, or Jupiter, or …).
2. I‘m inching my way into astrology and have reached that blissful state of knowledge where at least I know that I don‘t know. ;-)
However, I realised that I very much lack an overview of the different systems of astrology. I.e. „modern“ astrology (as in Parker‘s, with the new planets) vs. renaissance astrology (and maybe vs. vedic and other kinds of astrology). And the same for the different house systems (Whole Sign Houses vs. Regiomontanus vs. Placidus vs. others).
Do you know of any good and reliable written comparison? Any recommendable websites, posts or books which explain the advantages, disadvantages and limits of the different systems and house systems?
(I‘d rather read some reliable, recommended information than just do a random internet search. There‘s a ton of info about astrology out there, but even beginner-me can tell that a lot of it is just rehashed stuff, or new agey wishful thinking, or very weird stuff where I‘m sure people had a lot of fun smoking whatever before they wrote it. ;-) But if I knew which of the info out there was solid, I wouldn‘t have to look it up anymore…)
Thanks, and blessings to you and your wife!
Milkyway
Re: Two astrology/planetary questions
Date: 2022-08-08 03:47 pm (UTC)Re: Two astrology/planetary questions
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2022-08-08 06:04 pm (UTC) - ExpandMapping the 7 planes on the tree of life
Date: 2022-08-08 07:57 am (UTC)Re: Mapping the 7 planes on the tree of life
Date: 2022-08-08 05:52 pm (UTC)To Be Silent
Date: 2022-08-08 07:59 am (UTC)On to my question: can you offer any advice on how to reconcile that fourth magical virtue with operating as a professional magician? I guess you don't get into the details of what you do in private, but it is no secret that you are up to your eyeballs in magic. I'm not sure if I really want do it, but I have been toying with the idea of opening up a little shop someday to do horoscopes and divination, perhaps sell some astrological talismans - or maybe setting up a booth at fairs and flea markets. How (if at all) would one stay Silent while using these skills to help people and make a little money?
Re: To Be Silent
Date: 2022-08-08 05:54 pm (UTC)2) None of the magical virtues are rigid dogmas. All of them are tools you use, or don't use, depending on will. Thus you get to choose what to keep silent about and what to speak about. The important thing is that you don't just blabber on unthinkingly!
Re: To Be Silent
From:Geomancy
Date: 2022-08-08 08:05 am (UTC)I was meditating on the geomantic figures, and I noticed a discrepancy in the assignment of inner and outer elements to each figure.
Each outer element has four figures attributed to it, but amongst the inner elements only water and earth have four, air has five and fire has three.
Is there are reason for this that you know of?
Re: Geomancy
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Date: 2022-08-08 05:56 pm (UTC)Magic Sword(s)
Date: 2022-08-08 10:40 am (UTC)I had been working with the DMH for a few months now after spending a little over a year with your Golden Dawn material. I have acquired a sword to use for the solitary grove ritual and I was wondering:
1) Is it a conflict of energies (or otherwise acceptable) to consecrate this sword as a magic sword per Circles of Power and still use it to open a grove.
2) If not, would it be alright to rework the ceremonies for the wand, cauldron, and crane skin bag for a grove sword, or is there some other procedure?
3) Do you have any ideas for a Druidry specific banishing implement (like a hand scythe maybe?) or is roughly banishing spirits like that a bit outside the oeuvre of Druidry?
Re: Magic Sword(s)
Date: 2022-08-08 06:00 pm (UTC)Consecrate it using a working based on the wand, cauldron, and crane bag, and you're good to do. Don't use the Circles of Power ritual -- it invokes different forces, which you haven't learned how to work with.
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From:Tarot Reversed
Date: 2022-08-08 10:57 am (UTC)Do you have a general rule, or guideline, for how to interpret the cards of a Tarot draw when they are reversed?
Also, would it be legitimate if I, having long incorporated reversed interpretations into my daily three-card draws, discontinued incorporating them? Though I'm relatively new to using them (Rider-Waite) for Divination, my experience thus far is that the reversed cards lead me to confusion and difficulty forming an interpretation of the draw's overall message. Or will I miss something by not considering the reversed positions?
Thanks!
Mauve Libidinous Ghoul
Re: Tarot Reversed
Date: 2022-08-08 06:02 pm (UTC)2) You'll need to work that out by experience. The tarot is an intensely personal oracle and different people have very different experiences with it.
Book suggestion
Date: 2022-08-08 11:40 am (UTC)Re: Book suggestion
Date: 2022-08-08 06:06 pm (UTC)Re: Book suggestion
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Date: 2022-08-08 11:48 am (UTC)Question this week about the early German Pietists, Kelpius in particular. What is the relationship between them and the Rosicrucians? I was at Kelpius's cave in Philadelphia and saw the Rosicrucians put a marker there to him. I find the diversity in early American faith practices so interesting. It certainly wasn't the Pilgrims version we were given in school.
Phosphorescent Balding Yucca
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Date: 2022-08-08 03:11 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2022-08-08 12:26 pm (UTC)Last Monday I had asked you about why during the FHR opening the elements go around the altar from least dense (air) around to most dense (earth) and you has suggested I meditate on this and come to my own conclusions? I have been thinking about this all week and I have some observations.
In the Cabalistic Cross the Latin Cross shape is used - this is described in CoP as (among other things) a symbol of spirit taking matter up into itself.
In the LBRP, when doing the elements and visualizing the angels, it goes Air, Water, Fire, Earth. If you map this on a piece of paper it forms a Greek cross. CoP says (among other things), that it is equal and equally participating in union. Then after that the hexagram is visualized, to establish the system of elemental powers and then rise above it. It’s an outward movement followed by upward movement.
So, in the FHR opening, we go around and do the elemental purification. Then the Divine Presence is invoked, then the Temple is declared open and the Sun has arisen - wouldn’t that constitute the outward movement (elements) followed by upward (rising sun)?
But there’s something else here (probably several somethings I haven’t thought of yet). Cabalistic Cross makes the Latin cross, LBRP makes a Greek cross. When you look at the FHR purification of going around the elements in a circle, but doing it from least dense to most dense, to me that would suggest a downward spiral shape from the heavens to earth.
A number of weeks ago at Magic Monday I asked if the opening and closing prepared the subtle bodies for initiation and you said yes so I had a gander at the initiation ritual (Grade of Seeker). I can’t help but notice that after the Sign, Grip, etc are given the magician then goes around the elements (Officers) again BUT this time begins from Earth and works around to Air. What I’m thinking is - is going from least dense to most dense like call spiral stair case down, and then starting at most dense to least dense like going up that same spiral stair case? I remember that the Opening and Closing in CoP had the spiral stair case and that visual seems to be sticking with me.
Sorry if that is too big of a wall of text! My official Magic Monday question is:
1) Am I on the right track? Do you see any glaring issues with this understanding that need to be corrected? Or am I way off base?
Thank you very much and thank you for posting the photo of John Gilbert as I’ve been getting curious about him with all this FHR work. Is there any place where I can read more about him? I did a web search but he didn’t seem to have an official web page I could see on the search engine I was using?
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-08 06:26 pm (UTC)2) There's very, very little about John online. One of these days, if I can find the time, I may see if his widow is interested in seeing a page put up. A bunch of his writings on tarot and Cabala have been edited into two books and will be released next year, I think, by Aeon Books; other than that, it's just those of us who remember him.
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Date: 2022-08-08 01:00 pm (UTC)2. If you can talk about it, what were your most effective talismans for?
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Date: 2022-08-08 03:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:"completely destroyed"?
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2022-08-09 01:01 am (UTC) - ExpandLeather as a cleansing tool?
Date: 2022-08-08 01:25 pm (UTC)First I’d like to express my gratitude for the existence of this forum—thank you!!
My question today has to do with an experience I had about two months ago: I had a dream in which an elderly woman offered me a bit of advice, telling me to use fine grain leather to wash my face. She gave me an oval shaped piece of leather in the dream and I began to pull it across my face in circular motions. The leather pulled debris from my pores, until it got snagged on something between my eyebrows. The leather began pulling long strands of green goop from my forehead; the sensation was one of pressure being relieved.
About a week later I was digging a hole to plant a tree, and dug up an oval shaped piece of leather. Out of curiosity I held the leather up to my head and felt a strong magnetic sensation. I’ve held onto the piece of leather and use it to “clean” if i’m feeling particularly heavy minded or foggy.
Have you, JMG, or any other reader, come across any mention of leather being used in such a way?
For context this occurred in southern Ireland and the dream took place in an Irish countryside-type setting. Thanks again for everyone’s time and consideration.
Best wishes to all,
Cobalt Lily-livered Harpy
Re: Leather as a cleansing tool?
Date: 2022-08-08 06:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-08 01:32 pm (UTC)When making the talisman from CoP, how important is the gold paint? Essential, or more like a “booster”?
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-08 06:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:Awen
Date: 2022-08-08 02:23 pm (UTC)Re: Awen
Date: 2022-08-08 06:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-08 03:13 pm (UTC)Felicitations for Lughnasadh/Lammas for all those who celebrate it.
I have a rather strange question for this week. I know a few women who are making use of their menstrual blood for both ritual and artistic purposes. Aesthetically, I find this a little distasteful, but that's just me. As regards the ritual aspects, though, I do rather wonder if the warning on blood-sacrifices attracting parasitic entities also applies here. I'm not sure of the details of the rituals in question, but I believe at least some of them involve offerings of menstrual blood to the soil.
One final request, for any who feel moved to follow it: a beloved rowan tree, with whom I felt a very strong connection, was recently chopped down before I could do anything to prevent it. Any prayers and positive energy for its soul's onward journey would be acknowledged with gratitude.
Many thanks for hosting this forum once again!
Luke
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Date: 2022-08-08 05:44 pm (UTC)—Princess Cutekitten
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Date: 2022-08-08 03:22 pm (UTC)I am a member of a fraternal organization with which I very much wish to continue my association. There is a brother, a nice enough guy all-in-all, whose energy does not mix well with mine and from whom I seem to get energetic attachments (leeches?). Due to his circumstances, this brother cannot drive and I am often giving him a ride to and/or from our meetings as I live nearby. I wish to 1) remain a member, 2) provide this brother periodic assistance, and 3) protect myself from whatever (astral?) stuff is going on. Is there a basic protective amulet or similar protective magic that would be appropriate here?
--Dijon Radioactive Yak
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Date: 2022-08-08 06:36 pm (UTC)Memetic Magic
Date: 2022-08-08 03:25 pm (UTC)Re: Memetic Magic
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