Magic Monday
Feb. 16th, 2020 11:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)

According to the cover, The Kybalion was written by "Three Initiates;" in fact, it was written by one, the redoubtable William Walker Atkinson, one of the most influential American occultists of his time. If Hermes can be Thrice Great, no doubt Atkinson can be Thrice Initiate...
Ask me anything about occultism and I'll do my best to answer it. Any question received by midnight Monday Eastern time will get an answer. If you're in a hurry, or suspect you may be the 143,916th person to ask a question, please check out the very rough version 1.0 of The Magic Monday FAQ here.
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***This Magic Monday is now closed -- and yes, this means you. See you next week!***
Jean Markale
Date: 2020-02-17 05:03 am (UTC)Re: Jean Markale
Date: 2020-02-17 05:14 am (UTC)LRP In Cluttered Spaces
Date: 2020-02-17 05:22 am (UTC)Re: LRP In Cluttered Spaces
Date: 2020-02-17 05:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2020-02-17 05:33 am (UTC)I know I’ve got a ways to go before I can use the tarot for divination with any confidence (several months in I feel like I can come up with a plausible post facto interpretation from my daily readings more often than not, but moments of genuine insight/TSW are much rarer, occurring with about as much frequency as complete stumpers), but I also find myself growing increasingly astrologically curious. I gather that you’d recommend sticking to one system of divination at a time, but do you think it would be biting offf too much to pursue a study of the basics of astrology while continuing to use tarot for daily use (For what it’s worth, I did try a tarot reading on this question and drew the Ace of Wands, the Magician, and the Wheel of Fortune, which struck me as broadly positive)?
Finally, on an unrelated note, after having recently changed to more physically demanding job than I’d been previously used to, I’ve been waking up with sore muscles nearly every morning. This past week, after reading the discussion here I started taking cold morning showers (or rather, your washcloth variant) and have found, much to my surprise, that contact with cold water completely removes the pain I’ve been having, pretty much instantaneously. Not sure if the effect is physical or etheric, but either way I’m grateful. So, thanks for that, and for your advice as always!
-NPM
(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 05:49 am (UTC)2) Oh, by all means learn the basics of astrology any time you like. You can even spend some time studying your natal chart -- always the best way to take astrology out of the realm of theory and start seeing how it works in practice. Just remember that astrology is far and away the most complex and richly developed Western system of divination, by a couple of orders of magnitude. Be prepared to put years into getting a basic grasp of it.
3) Fascinating! That's good to know.
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-02-18 12:59 am (UTC) - ExpandWeird of Hali Series
Date: 2020-02-17 05:40 am (UTC)This has nothing to do with The Kybalion. I just wanted to let you know I have started reading The Weird of Hali series and am absolutely loving it. I haven’t had this much enjoyment from a series of books since my first reading of Tolkien. I completely fell in love with the ancient history of the elves and am now completely enthralled with the ancient history of the Great Old Ones.
Thank you!
Elizabeth in Seattle
Re: Weird of Hali Series
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From:(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 06:07 am (UTC)1. I had a most enjoyable experience just now doing the SOP in a dark room, as in it being night time with the lights turned off. Would practicing it in this manner pose any particular problems in your experience? For me it made visualization of each of the 6 glyphs a bit easier and more vivid for me.
2. Not really a question per-se, but rather a personal data point I'd like to share with you and everyone here. SOP has been helping me greatly with my lifelong moodiness and crankiness issues. Before doing spiritual practices I would too often knee-jerk react to the crummy energies around me and sometimes snap at people in ugly ways. But now it seems like when I come into contact with other people's negative energies I'm able to internally process these emotional sensations in a more detached manner and actually observe them as internal phenomena rather than just blindly let these feelings make me react in a predictable and unreflective manner. I've thought about this and it seems the main problem has been a rather unclean astral (or etheric??) environment I've been in close quarters with some quite some time. I've always been extremely sensitive to other people's moods and habits and at times have become a recluse to avoid the emotional weather (or maybe just weird vibes) other people emit. It really does seem the unseen environment out there really is a colossal mess! And hopefully I'm now doing my tiny little part of make the area immediately around me less unpleasant. SOP was very subtle at first, but the cumulative effects really seem to be stacking up now that I've been at it for about 6 months now.
3. This one is a question. I've been studying up on the 7 elements and the 8-spehere/wheel chart as you present them in DMH. Some questions:
(a) At first glance some of the correspondences strike me as a bit novel (or at least unconventional) when compared to more established systems. For example, associating Saturn with the spring equinox, Venus with Air (tbh, I've seen different systems present totally different hot takes on what Venus corresponds to), and Mercury with Spirit (ether??. Out of curiosity, how did you arrive at the correspondences in this system come about? I do realize that your system does seem to bring out different aspects of the elements and planets and in general the planets are probably way too complex and multifaceted to be associated with just one element. Did I just answer my own question?
(b)I've seen another magical system that uses 7 elements and instead of Spirit Below and above, the added elements (to the usual 4) are Wood, Metal, and Spirit. are used. As these getting at the same sort of thing as the SOP elements?
(c) Is there a direct correlation between the 7 SOP elements and the 8 spheres of the calendar wheel? Obviously one set has 7 and the other, 8. Which element of the wheel is left out of the ritual? Is Mercury/Spirit? Or is that fused with the 3 spirit elements?
So far I've figured:
Gwyar = Spirit Within / Lunar Current
Nwyfre = Spirit Above / Solar Current
Calas = Spirit Below / Telluric Current
Earth = Earth/North
Water = Water/West
Fire = Fire/South
Air = Air/East
Spirit = All 3 spirit elements?
This sound about right? Apologies if this is pedantic, as my brain tends to go into OCD mode when presented with elements and correspondences.
(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 06:23 am (UTC)2) Very glad to see it.
3a) Well, the answer I was going to give was "What a wonderful set of themes for meditation!" but your answer is close enough. ;-)
3b) Nope. As a rule of thumb, different symbolic systems are no more interconvertible than the grammars of different languages. (Rule-of-thumbly, systems symbolic different than of different languages the grammar intercomvertible no more are...)
3c) Here are two pies of equal diameter. I have cut one of them into eight pieces and one into seven. Which of the eight pieces are left out of the pie that's been cut into seven pieces?
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From:Haunting
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-02-18 03:35 am (UTC) - ExpandHoodoo washing the dishes and Orphic Hymn to Mercury
Date: 2020-02-17 06:40 am (UTC)Also, I published my first in a series of Orphic hymns. I've written about 16 or 17 of them. It's downloadable at no charge and I made free sheet music for guitar.
https://queeniemusic.bandcamp.com/track/orphic-hymn-to-mercury
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZLNhvUdBtg
Re: Hoodoo washing the dishes and Orphic Hymn to Mercury
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From:Mental disjunct sets
Date: 2020-02-17 06:59 am (UTC)1) I am not sure I understand correctly the difference between astral and mental. I understand that astral es the realm of dreams and some thought but then the mental, if I recall correctly, is more concerned with the basic building patterns of thought. What does the matter mean?
2) Using my mind is one of the things I value about myself but I feel my mind is strong in an unbalanced way, for example someone that has gone to the gym to build big muscles but when it comes to dexterity it just fails. What is a way of becoming a mental martial artist in order to balance and shield my mind? Discursive meditation also does this? If so I have much work to do...
3) Concerning the blindness of some thought patterns, like the one our progress-drunk society has or for example someone very rich that behaves like a yerk (convinced he is entitled) or apparently Crowley. What is this apparent disjunction that makes some thought patterns blind you against others? It also works the other way around, for example good and honest people have trouble identifying lies or lying themselves, not because they are naïve, they seem to literally not see it. Is this somehow how consciousness affects our perception and how are actions and thoughts affects our consciousness?
I think I have to stop, concerning my trouble of not being able to stop thinking to the point of a headache but, this kinda makes me think we some things seem completely outside our reach and look like gibberish until you have the right “consciousness” to actually “see”. On the other side it also is a cautionary tale from now on to me, of the dangers of not having any sort of spiritual practice in today’s world... If you are under the effect of some nasty ness, you are completely blind to it!
Many thanks, shall I say again, for your work has had a direct impact on my life and wellbeing.
Re: Mental disjunct sets
Date: 2020-02-17 06:28 pm (UTC)2) That's not a simple process! Human beings don't yet have mental bodies -- we have a much simpler structure, a mental sheath, which is in the process of evolving into a mental body. Everything you do that brings you into contact with abstract meaning, from reading a poem to thinking about a problem to practicing discursive meditation, helps with that process. There have been many systems of mind training over the years; all of them involve some degree of meditation, so that's always a good place to start.
3) Again, this is a function of our limited capacities on the mental plane. If you can learn to see yourself clearly, exactly as you are, you're most of the way to enlightenment.
Re: Mental disjunct sets
From:(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 07:29 am (UTC)The idea I had was to look at the history of when each planet was discovered, and how they reshaped society. This lead me to conclude that each planet brings forth most, but by no means all, of their effects on society through a single thing.
Thus, Uranus brings forth its effects through Utopianism, by attempting to bring forth the perfect, and rejecting the establish imperfect society, radical change of a sort not seen prior the discovery of Uranus occurs. The irony of it all is that this idea which fuels Uranian cultural forms is often rejected by people with a strong Uranus, but the universe seems to have a good sense of humor, so it seems plausible.
Neptune brings forth its effects via the idea of evolution; it reveals changes, unities, but is often misunderstood; additionally, plenty of fields were revolutionized during the period when Neptune came into focus by noticing how evolution occurred, and revealing hidden linkages between things. Fields such as religious studies, biology, linguistics, and anthropology were all created or revolutionized during the time around the discovery of Uranus by evolutionary thinking; and the unities, delusions, and strange ideas which emerge from the ideas of evolution continue to bring forth many of the Neptunian elements of society to this day.
Ceres brought forth the Romantic Era, which is perhaps easiest to see due to the fact it ended, and is not part of the world anymore. At its heart, Romanticism was an embrace of the natural world, and not just as something outside of us, but as something which defines us as human beings. It was about embracing our connection to the world of nature, in all of its glory, and power.
Finally, Pluto brought forth many of its effects by the oil age. The growth in organized crime occurred due in large part to the totalitarianism of the 20th century governments; this was only possible due to the huge amounts of energy contained in oil. Nuclear power was only possible due to the oil subsidy; massive pollution, global dimming, came from oil. As did the alienation, due to car culture. The brutal wars were fought using machines powered by oil; the rejection of the natural world was also only possible due to the oil age.
There's something which got started at the period when I'd expect to see Eridian themes coming into focus, which has radically reshaped society, and which seems unlikely to last much longer: the internet. Now, what's the main use of the internet been? Porn and theft of various kinds. Both of these are strongly Eridian in nature; the world's governments either tolerate a level of lawless chaos which is horribly destructive to society in exchange for surveillance capabilities which make the KGB look lackluster, or use it for horrific, totalitarian control (or both); it's payed for in no small part by theft and sex trafficking; and the level of abuse it enables is incredible.
1) Does my analysis of how astrological planets affect society sound plausible to you?
2) Do you think it's possible the internet is evidence Eris functioned as an astrological planet?
3) I expect I'll need to spend years working on getting the basics before I can look into it further, but what would you look for to see if Eris was a planet?
(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 06:44 pm (UTC)2) Possibly, but it would also make sense to see the internet as the last great manifestation of the Pluto current -- it's not accidental, I think, that pornography was the first successful internet business, or that the internet lends itself so readily to so many Plutonian themes and activities.
3) You'd want to start paying attention to what happens when other planets aspect it. If it's a planet, each aspect will be marked by noticeable events that combine the flavors of the two planets.
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Date: 2020-02-17 07:50 am (UTC)The first theme was the secular vs regular clergy distinction. I took it as a theme, and found I saw exactly why it is Druidry would prefer to use a regular clergy, and Christianity a secular clergy, given the general Uranian ethos of the former and Neptunian ethos of the later. I then saw it as a binary, and so decided to try to resolve it into a trinary.
This was today's meditation, and it was very fruitful. The summary is that the binary is due to a focus on the role of the priest: a secular clergy focuses on the effects on the community; a regular clergy on the effects on the self. If one does the work out of love for the divine, without thinking of any of the effects, then that would be a distinct way of looking at it that leads out of the binary. This would be a Venereal form of clergy though, alongside Uranian (regular) and Neptunian (secular); this then made me start thinking about the possibility of other types, and now I'm wondering if each planet has its own type of clergy (Mercurial clergy would be theologians, without a doubt, but I'm not sure of the others).
1) Does this sound like a good set of meditations on the theme?
2) The question of different types of clergy mapped onto each of the astrological planets, as well as the implications of the "general Uranian ethos of Druidry" both seem like they would be wonderful themes for meditation, but I suspect this would be taking me too far afield for my present goals.
I suspect there's a balance to be found, between following these ideas out and unpacking as much as possible, and sticking close to the text and avoiding going off on tangents. Do you have advice on how to maintain this balance?
(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 06:49 pm (UTC)2) I don't have any advice to offer, sadly, because I always chase down the tangents as far as I can. A baker's dozen or so of my books have come into existence that way! :-)
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-02-18 04:42 am (UTC) - ExpandTracking spell?
Date: 2020-02-17 07:56 am (UTC)First my background is basically doing SoP daily for the past six months, an not much else of experience with ritual magic.
I was walking in the forest and thought about all the tracks that must be there and how nice it would be to see more of them (yelous of my dog perhaps, because she seems to have a very interesting time when we walk in the forest). Is there any way of seeing etheric tracks or similar to enhance the ability to track someone or something?
Second question is perhaps premature since I havent finished the Circles of Power yet, but reading the rituals in the book makes me wonder where one should insert the carefully formulated phrase tha is about to be willed forth by the appropriate ritual(s)?
If I invoke Fire for example, using the greater ritual of the pentagram, then when do I ask it to do my bidding? Perhaps I'm confusing this to much with prayer?
Thanks in advance, Ola
Re: Tracking spell?
Date: 2020-02-17 06:52 pm (UTC)2) The carefully formulated phrase doesn't get used in basic rituals such as pentagram rituals. You use that in the ceremonies that are put together out of basic rituals -- for example, the rituals for consecrating a talisman given later on in the book all have a place where you state your intention.
Re: Tracking spell?
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-02-18 01:06 am (UTC) - ExpandGeomancy
Date: 2020-02-17 09:30 am (UTC)regarding the publication of scientific papers I assume it is a third house mater(?) So, I cast this chart to figure if this particular journal will accept my paper to publication:
1 - acquisitio
2 - caput D.
3 - tristitia
4 - caput D
5 - populus
6 - puer
7 - acquisitio
8 - via
9 - albus
10 - conjuctio
11 - puer
12 - amissio
RW rubeus
LW Caput D.
J - Fortuna Mayor
I read the chart as being favourable , as it perfects with Caput D in the 2nd and the fourth house, tristitia in the third would mean that major revisions would be asked, and the whole process would take some time.The court didn't look so bad either. So and I mad the submission but the journal desk rejected it - they did send it to a transfer desk to be submitted in another journal with an editorial line more "quantitative". Still, I have never been so wrong reading a chart, and I still didn't figure where did I misread the chart. Any opinions?
Thanks!
Re: Geomancy
Date: 2020-02-17 06:58 pm (UTC)Another major work of W. W. Atkinson
Date: 2020-02-17 09:38 am (UTC)The Arcane Teaching series by the same author is much more comprehensive than the Kybalion. The first book of the series also contains similar "seven laws" but it covers a wider range of topics in Western occult philosophy (and in more depth). The third book ("The Mystery of Sex or Sex Polarity") further elaborates on the principle of gender on different planes. Additionally, the second and fourth books (namely "Arcane Formulas or Mental Alchemy" and "Vril or Vital Magnetism") contain a lot practical exercises related to these teachings. I wonder why this series is not as popular as the Kybalion.
Re: Another major work of W. W. Atkinson
Date: 2020-02-17 05:32 pm (UTC)Also, "Vril" is the sixth in the series oif supplementary books, not the fourth, according to its title page. I have never found so much as a bare reference to the titles of the thrid, fourth and fifth books in the series; they may never have been published.
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From:antipodean UFO book
Date: 2020-02-17 09:48 am (UTC)I have just read a book from 1996 on UFO experiences documented in Australia, New Zealand and PNG.
It is The Oz Files: the Australian UFO Story by Bill Chalker.
ISBN 1875989048
The writer details UFO encounters in the historical records as well as discussing their role in Aboriginal spiritual tradition.
One of the more unfamiliar facts for me was that water sources have been apparently drained in some cases in addition to the common trope of electrical systems being disabled. Perhaps the power is being drained too.
Chalker doesn't speculate on what might cause the phenomena.
I'm just wondering whether this book might be of interest to you in your research.
If so, I'm very happy to post you my copy, as it seems like it might not be easy to source.
Regards,
kallianeira,
Re: antipodean UFO book
Date: 2020-02-17 07:03 pm (UTC)Routine use of blessed salt in cooking?
Date: 2020-02-17 09:58 am (UTC)Also wanted to say, I thought I would have loads of questions about meditation practice before I started practicing it. Then started meditating, and I am finding that the questions seem to answer themselves so I don't need to ask anyone else as much as I thought I would. Thanks for the guidance about meditation that you have posted.
Thanks in advance,
A Dishwasher
Re: Routine use of blessed salt in cooking?
Date: 2020-02-17 11:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 10:30 am (UTC)Is it possible to use magic to change deep-rooted physiological manifestations of psychological states? As I progress through the DMH, I have tried an SOP working to invoke courage and banish fear (I've asked questions previously about it here) and after 2 weeks of daily SOPs with that working, it did seem to have some effect in certain situations. It helped me to see situations where I automatically become fearful, and it helped me instead respond more courageously.
But I don't know yet if it helped me to change the more instinctual reactions to certain situations: sometimes in social situations I get 'tight', like a deer caught in headlights, and my senses seem to close down, unable to respond fluidly and easily to what's going on. I journalled a lot before I did the SOP working, and I know why I'm fearful in such situations, but the instinctual response is still there.
Thank you!
(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 11:04 pm (UTC)Astral antics
Date: 2020-02-17 11:13 am (UTC)We've been getting our drinking water from an artesian well in town where we live for almost 2 years now. Sort of a daily ritual in itself, fetching two gallons of drinking water pouring right out of the earth. It's delicious.
But about a month ago I had a very vivid dream about being down at the well, and in this dream I was trying to clean the well pipe. It does tend to grow algae inside it, but the city usually does a pretty good job of keeping it brushed out. In the dream I had no bottle/pipe brush with me so I pulled the pipe out of the stone, set it upright against the stone wall that surrounds it, and "went back home" to get one. (I'm a homebrewer so I have bottle brush sizes to choose from.) And that was the end of the dream.
Except that when I went to the well later that morning to get water the pipe had been pulled out...and leaned up against the rock wall surrounding the hole. Exactly as I left it in my dream.
I almost jumped backwards when I saw it. In the almost 2 years I'd been getting water there it had never been pulled out like that.
That very same night my wife discovered that she had a parasitic worm issue, then I discovered that I did too. This particular worm can be transmitted by slugs, in their slimy trails, and I had seen slugs around the well pipe before. So obviously we stopped drinking the spring water immediately, and took an anthelmintic to clear out the parasites.
I cast a geomantic chart asking if we got them from the well water, which gave a very clear yes. And another asking if I pulled the pipe out of the wall, which also gave a very clear yes.
But...what the?? Is there any chance I was able to pull the pipe out of the rocks with my astral body? It wouldn't be overly difficult - it's just pushed into a hole between the rocks that's lined with a sort of rubber gasket. But still?! 😳 And if I'm astral (or etheric) projecting at such force I'd really like to be in control of it! For obvious reasons. Any thoughts?
Tripp
Re: Astral antics
Date: 2020-02-17 11:06 pm (UTC)Re: Astral antics
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Date: 2020-02-17 11:52 am (UTC)When I thought about Dion Fortune's use of Arthurian legend in her order, it led me to think about a possible historical analogy between Saxon invasion of Britain and Nazi invasion attempt. Since Fortune and her society organised a magical resistance against Nazi army; when they decided to incorporate Arthurian legend into their ritual work, were they motivated by this kind of historical analogy?
Magical Battle of Britain
Date: 2020-02-17 06:53 pm (UTC)Wasn't a big part of her work then about boosting British morale? I know from a German whose father was stationed in North Africa that the biggest problem they had towards the end of the war was Germans sabotaging their own side as they knew they were going to lose anyway by then.
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From:Medical issues and magic
Date: 2020-02-17 11:53 am (UTC)I'm already limiting my practice to meditation, divination, natural magic, and the LBRP. The problem is that when this happens, I can barely light up the pentagrams in imagination. I'll be picking up the Middle Pillar Ritual as well today, but once again, it seems to call for some heavy-duty visualizing a lot of energy here, there, and yonder.
Also, though I practice Wicca, I'm looking at the tools for a full-scale ritual and realizing I really don't do such rituals any more. Again, no energy nor endurance except as one of those spurts of adrenaline that don't last. I won't get rid of the basic tools, of course, but they are on the shelf.
My question is, where to go from here. The Gypsy Witch cards are working out nicely for me, to the point where the overly simplistic interpretations on the LeNormand deck are giving way to more meaningful readings most of the time. I guess what I need is adaptations of the usual Golden Dawn stuff I was taught, for someone not quite up to it any more. Will accept advice from anyone, as well.
Thanks.
Re: Medical issues and magic
Date: 2020-02-17 04:49 pm (UTC)I sensed a very clear sincerity in your thoughts expressed here. My feeling is that you are already THERE. It doesn’t matter what you are doing so much as how you are doing it. It’s my belief that when we move, Spirit moves too. That’s just my two cents.
-Elizabeth in Seattle
Re: Medical issues and magic
From:Dolmen Arch
Date: 2020-02-17 12:36 pm (UTC)Any word on when the Dolmen Arch will ship?
Also, a question about how to integrate the course. I have been pursuing the three legs of practice daily by meditating my way through the Druidry Handbook, performing the SOP from the DMH, and an Ogham divination. My youngest kid is 5 so I have not progressed beyond the SOP in the DMH yet. I've been doing this practice for over a year.
How would you integrate the Dolmen Arch course with this set of practices?
Thank you!
Re: Dolmen Arch
Date: 2020-02-17 09:52 pm (UTC)Re: Dolmen Arch
From:(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 12:41 pm (UTC)When I saw that some prominent members (even leaders) of the Carbonari were initiated into various Egyptian Rites of Freemasonry, I got surprised. On the one hand, Carbonari sought to build secular and rationalist republics around Europe; on the other hand, they were initiated into some occultist organizations whose rituals were influenced by ancient Greco-Egyptian Paganism. Were the Carbonari members really interested in occultism, or did they use Continental Masonic lodges merely for political gatherings?
(no subject)
Date: 2020-02-17 11:36 pm (UTC)Honey Jar Spell timing
Date: 2020-02-17 12:53 pm (UTC)Re: Honey Jar Spell timing
Date: 2020-02-17 11:38 pm (UTC)