ecosophia | Magic Monday

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The image? I've decided to do another pass through magical personalities, and I figured I'd start with one of my own teachers. This is John Gilbert, with whom I studied the teachings of the Universal Gnostic Church, the Order of Spiritual Alchemy, the Modern Order of Essenes, and the Magickal Order of the Golden Dawn -- this last, of course, is the parent body of the Fellowship of the Hermetic Rose. This photo was taken in 2008 in eastern Tennessee at a Druid event there; it was the last time John and I met in person, though we corresponded via email and talked on the phone quite a bit after that.

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You've commented before about the changes in the subtle body that correspond to puberty (roughly the opening of channels in the subtle bodies that carry sexual/magical energies, with the end of this process being roughly the age of first menarche in girls and IIRC the first wet dream in boys). What subtle factors, if any, affect the age at which this process happens for a given individual?

- pretentious_username

I don't think I've ever seen that discussed in occult literature. Why do you ask?

A rather interesting conversation I ran across elsewhere earlier this week; it's anecdotal, but if it holds then given my own impressions from what I remember of my own school days (quite a bit more recent than yours) it would suggest that the average age of first menarche has jumped forwards by about a year in the last decade alone. (First menarche used to be in the 12-15 range; my impression was that the age range when I was in school was closer to 11.5-13; this thread if it hold would suggest that the modern age range averages closer to 10.5 years old.)

There's an obvious set of *physical* plane causes for this if this is in fact a real effect (lots of calories, nutrition issues, xenoestrogen exposure); but a change like this strikes me as potentially reflective of changes or conditions on the higher planes as well and I was wondering if the literature had anything to suggest on the subject.

- pretentious_username

It's an interesting question, but I don't recall anything about it in occult literature. The one thing that comes close is a discussion somewhere in Dion Fortune's books about the fact that in her time, Indian girls reached menarche on average a couple of years before English girls, and iirc she credited the climate with that effect.

Not exactly what you're going for, but if I remember right, I've read in some anthropology/evolutionary psych literature that girls who grow up in poorer/harsher life circumstances tend to hit menarche earlier than those in more comfortable surroundings. There might also be some correlation with ethnicity, but that can be hard to sort out from the kind of environmental factors I first mentioned. The Ev. Psych argument goes something like "the bodies of girls in less comfortable circumstances pursue a strategy of something like "get some kids out while the gettings good!", whereas the bodies of girls in more comfortable circumstances recognize the opportunity to be choosier, which might mean waiting longer to make babies.

Of course, all of this assumes that a) you think Evolutionary Psychology is a valid/useful field, and b) that any subtle effects are utterly dependent on physiological ones. It also would go against the general trend you're proposing if things are basically "better" physically for most girls, but that might also make for useful triangulation: if it's historically true that girls in poorer/more severe circumstances hit menarche earlier than more comfortable girls, but these days, even the comfortable girls are hitting menarche earlier, that might be a very telling data point.

Thanks,
Jeff

Another possibility is some form of epigenetic factor (epigenetic = heritable phenotype changes that do not involve alterations in the DNA sequence).

I remember seeing a study somewhere that female offspring who are born when their fathers were older were more likely to remain fertile for longer. It couldn't be "pure" genetics, because the older siblings of these offspring (who were born when the same fathers were younger) did not exhibit the extended fertility. Apparently, the fact that the fathers were older when they produced these later offspring somehow "told" the females' genetics to "stay fertile longer". I can't remember the details of the study, or if it applied only to animals and not necessarily humans, but the point is, there are epigentic factors at work in reproduction. Something can "tell" the genes that older parents are apparently still reproducing, so conditions must be good and you can plan to keep reproducing longer.

It's possible that one of the reasons females might reach menarche younger could have to do with parental factors. Perhaps pregnancies taking place in higher-stress situations (meaning stress of any kind, emotional or physical, poor nutrition, etc.), or even fathers experiencing high stress levels (maybe cortisol affects sperm) could have an epigentic effect that "tells" the offpring's genes that times are tough, plan to reproduce early because it's rough out there and you may not live that long.

Hmm, this gets into fascinating speculations about how our "body elementals" are like software packages, pre-programmed to respond in certain ways to different types of etheric and astral conditions.

It also has to do with bodyfat percentage. No matter how rough your life circumstances, if you're not getting enough to eat you tend to reach menarche later. My grandmother (amazing family, but very poor, never more than adequate food to go around, kids weren't stunted, but were skinny!) didn't get there until nearly 18.

From an evolutionary standpoint, this makes perfect sense-- you don't make babies if you can't round up enough calories to support one.

But IMO a lot of evolutionary "science" is just spinning a compelling story to explain away some pathological aspect of modern life. Why go straight for "this is adaptive somehow" when it could as easily be explained by environmental toxins or other physical damage? Damage isn't adaptive. Damage is damage.

The idea that some of these things could stem from issues on the non-material planes is intriguing. How would you find out?

My understanding is that there is a limit to the percentage of body fat to allow for first menarche, and menstruation more generally. If the body fat percentage goes below that limit, menstruation cannot occur. My own menarche was at age 14 and I tended to skip periods, sometimes for months, until my body fat percentage increased, when I was well into my 20s. I think at least part of the reason that first menarche age is dropping is due to increased body fat percentage at younger ages, which in turn may have something to do with decreased levels of activity.

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Body fat and menarche